Principal Departures for London Coaches (1819)

Rules of the Road | Wanstead | UK Destinations | Porters, Goods & Luggage

coaching inn porter 4 1829 satire

If you are heading out of London in 1819, you ought to be aware the best coaching inn from where to begin your journey. First and foremost it is important to remember that London is served by over 120 stagecoach inns, and every one of them offers a selection of destinations. Where stabling is ample, such as the Golden Cross in Charing Cross, the widest selection of options are available. However, most inns concentrate on specific routes to the same part of the country. A good example of this is the Blue Boar Cellar at Aldgate, which heavily relies upon Essex trade. Inns cited near important industry or London markets such as Smithfield will place greater emphasis on waggons or carts with much less traffic by stagecoach. Blossoms Inn (see below) has taken advantage of the recent boom in tourism by providing  a frequent and regular service to Brighton.  Some inns are owned by the same businessmen. The Swan with 2 necks, the Spread Eagle and the White Horse all belong to William Chaplin. Chaplin is ahead of his time in regard to corporate branding because all coaches have livery relating to the specific inn from where they operate. Thus it is common to see coaches with either a two-necked swan, a white horse or an eagle emblazoned across their rear.

 

In this blog have I have listed the principal London departure points for major towns throughout Britain in the year 1819, and tried to give some background information on each inn selected.

swan with 2 necks lad lane - london coaching inn

The Swan with Two Necks, Cheapside

The Swan with Two Necks was in Lad Lane (renamed Gresham Street in 1851). Known to have existed since the 16th Century this large inn was significant from early days of organised coach travel, and was a key departure point for the mail coaches until the 1840s

Depart here for: Andover, Axminster, Basingstoke, Bath, Bristol, Bury St Edmunds, Camelford, Chester, Coventry, Daventry, Dartmouth, Devonport, Exeter, Falmouth, Ipswich, Leicester, Liverpool, Macclesfield, Manchester, Nottingham, Penzance, Plymouth, Preston, Reigate, Salisbury, Southampton, Stroud, Totnes, Towcester, Truro, Winchester, or Wolverhampton

golden cross charing x - London coaching inn

The Golden Cross, Charing Cross

This famous inn was a thriving transport hub back in the days when Charing Cross was a mere village between the cities of London and Westminster. Probably reaching its apogee in 1819, a combination of pressure for urban redevelopment and the onset of railways lead to a sudden death for this inn. By 1827 The Gentleman’s Magazine reported that the Golden Cross and its ‘extensive stables’ had been acquired by commissioners acting on behalf of the architect John Nash for the princely sum of £30,000 – and Trafalgar Square’s development was underway. There is a great literary connection to Charles Dickens as The Golden Cross features in Sketches by Boz, David Copperfield and The Pickwick Papers

Depart here for: Ashby de la Zouch, Ashford (Kent), Birmingham, Burton-on-Trent, Chichester, Dover, Durham, Eastbourne, Harrogate, Hastings, Hull, Leeds, Litchfield, Ludlow, Maidstone, Mitcham, Nantwich, Newmarket, Potteries (Stafford), Stratford upon Avon, Tamworth, Taunton, Thetford, Worcester, Wrotham (Kent),  or York

La Belle Sauvage, Ludgate Hill, London Coaching Inn

La Belle Sauvage Inn, Ludgate Hill

This coaching inn has been around since Elizabethan times where it also served as a playhouse and venue for sporting events, its rear balconies serving as upper and lower circles for crowds attending. Famous lodgers include Pocahontas (1616), and it is said to be the place where the first rhinoceros brought to England was kept. This is one of several pubs and inns mentioned in Dickens novel The Pickwick Papers. La Belle Sauvage was literally swept away by the railways when it was demolished in 1873 to make way for a viaduct.

Depart here for: Anglesey, Chippenham, Colchester, Darlington, Downham (Norfolk), Ely, Fulham, Holyhead, Kew, (Kings) Lynn, Maidenhead (Berks), Norwich, Shepton Mallet, Sherborne (Dorset), Shrewsbury, St Austell, Swindon, Tiverton, Trowbridge, Walsall, Warminster, Warrington, Warwick, Wimborne, or Windsor

white horse fetter lane - London coaching inn

The White Horse, Fetter Lane

The yard of this inn provided stabling for over 70 horses, and there were ample lodgings for both long and short-term visitors to the capital. It was demolished and rebuilt to a smaller scale in 1899, as the stables were no longer needed for the hotel guests, most of whom now travelled by rail.

Depart here for: Aberdeen, Aldborough, Arundel, Barnet,Barton Mills, Bishop Auckland, Blackburn, Bradford, Bury, Canterbury, Cromer, Croydon, Darlington, Dartford, Douglas (Isle of Man), Edinburgh, Gosport, Halifax, Hartlepool, Holmes Chapel, Hounslow, Huddersfield, Inverness, Kidderminster, Kilmarnock, Kirby Lonsdale, Kirkaldy, Knutsford, Lancaster, Leek, Milford Haven, Newark, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Newport Pagnall, Nuneaton, Peterhead, Pontefract, Rugby, Stockton on Tees, Selkirk, Sheerness, Sheffield, Stevenage, Stockport, Stockton upon Tees, Sunderland, Swansea, Ware (Herts), Wetherby, Wisbech, OR Worksop

 

Saracens Head Aldgate 1855 - London coaching inn

The Saracen’s Head, Snow Hill

The Saracen’s Head Hotel, Snow Hill (Holborn) is described in Chapter Four of Charles Dickens Nicholas Nickleby

Near to the jail, and by consequence near to Smithfield…and on that particular part of Snow Hill where omnibus horses going eastwards seriously think of falling down on purpose, and where horses in hackney cabriolets going westwards not unfrequently fall by accident, is the coach-yard of the Saracen’s Head inn, its portal guarded by two Saracens’ heads and shoulders…frowning upon you from either side of the gateway, and the inn itself, garnished with another Saracen’s Head, frowns upon you from the top of the yard

Knocked down to make way for the Holborn Viaduct in 1868 this ancient inn was once frequented by Samuel Pepys

Depart here for: Arbroath, Barnsley, Braintree, Burnley, Chelmsford, Cheshunt, Colne, Egham, Falkirk, Fishguard, Forfar,Greenwich, Grimsby, Hertford, Huntingdon, Kendall, Malmsbury, Marlborough, Minehead, Montrose, Newbury, Oldham, Padstow, Paisley, Perth, Poole, Reading, Sidmouth, Stirling, Thirsk, Ulverstone (Lancs), Upminster, Wakefield, Welwyn, Wentworth (Yorks), Weymouth, Whitehaven, OR Wigan

Bull and Mouth St Matrins le Grand 1830 - London coaching inn

The Bull & Mouth, St Martins Le Grand

This inn was situated near Smithfield Market was originally named ‘Boulogne Mouth’ in reference to a siege laid upon this French port by Henry VIII. It was burned down in the Great Fire of London and rebuilt as a thriving coaching inn until 1831, when it was replaced by The Queen’s Hotel. On his excellent London rambles blog Mark Rowland has written an intriguing post about the mystery of the Bull & Mouth

Depart here for: Bangor, Cardiff, Carlisle, Carnavon, Chesterfield, Dublin, Dudley, Dunstable, Glasgow, Fakenham, Henley, Knaresborough, Leighton Buzzard, Melton Mowbray, Northampton, Pembroke, Ripon, Rotherham, Scarborough, Skipton, St Albans, Stamford, Stourbridge, Stow on the Wold, Stranraer, Sutton Coldfield, Tipton, Wells (Norfolk), Woburn, OR Wrexham

Inner yard Blossoms Inn, Lawrence Lane Cheapside 1850 London coaching inn

Blossoms Inn, Cheapside

A corruption of the somewhat bawdy ‘Bosoms Inn’ this coaching inn dates back to the 14th century. In 1331 it was the venue for a jousting tournament that lasted three days. Pickfords Travel Company based their London headquarters here in 1720.

In 1822 The New Monthly Magazine published a popular ode to the coach journey from Bloossoms Inn to Brighton
blossoms inn poetry - London coaching inn

Depart here for: Brighton, Folkstone, Ramsgate, OR Sittingbourne,

spread eagle gracechurch st - London coaching inn

The Spread Eagle, Gracechurch Street

This pub is recorded as a very important commuter hub for counting-house (banking) employees in the 1760s with a service 4 times daily to Camberwell. By 1819 it was still a very important meeting place and venue for commercial activities. One such businessman who used the Spread Eagle for deliveries was Thomas Twining the tea merchant.

Depart here for: Bromley (Kent), Epsom, Gravesend, Harwich, Lewisham, Lincoln, Lowestoft, Peterborough, Rochester, Sleaford, Stilton, Stoke (Suffolk), Streatham, Tooting, Woodbridge (Suffolk), OR Yarmouth

Bell Inn Holborn 1853 rear view - London coaching inn

The Bell and Crown, Holborn

This Holborn pub was largely concerned with routes from London into Hampshire, with Southampton and Winchester fairly important goods destinations.It was a very important masonic meeting place – Well past its best by 1819 – constrained by size and competition from a myriad of inns in and around Holborn

Depart here for: Aylesbury, Banbury, Berkhamstead, Edgware, Edmonton, Hampstead, Harrow on on the Hill, Hemel Hempstead, Leatherhead, Lewes, Rickmansworth, Stokenchurch, Teignmouth (Devon), Tottenham, Walthamstow, Watford, OR Wendover

blue boar aldgate - London coaching inn

The Blue Boar Cellar, Aldgate

If Eastenders had a coaching inn, this would be it. The bulk of all coach travel into Essex originated at the Blue Boar Cellar. But in the 1750s it was more renowned as a departure point for young men heading on a Grand Tour of Europe – Stagecoaches ran to the port of Harwich which was the favoured port for those travelling to the Low Countries or Germany. By 1819 and the restoration of peace with France, Dover and Folkestone had gained the ascendancy for cross-channel trips.

Depart here for: Barking, Bishops Stortford, Brentwood, Chigwell, Dagenham, East Ham, Epping, Grays, Harlow. Hornchurch, Ilford, Plaistow, Rayleigh, Romford ,Southend-on-Sea, Stanstead, Stratford (Essex), OR Waltham Abbey

The Bolt and Tun Fleet St 1859 - London coaching inn

The Bolt in Tun, Fleet Street

The Bolt in Tun is recorded as open as long ago as 1443, and it survived right up until 1853. The coming of the railways put paid to the vast majority of coaching inns by 1850, so the demise of the Bolt in Tun was not surprising. Bolt-in-Tun is Regency period slang for a man who has absconded from lodgings, or escaped from jail. The pub itself had a reputation for riotous celebrations and drunkenness amongst its clientele, so perhaps it was popular with wild youth of the Georgian era. Book your journey from here by all means, but don’t hang around after dark!

Depart here for: Aberystwyth, Battle (Hastings), Cheltenham, Cowes (Isle of Wight), Esher, Eton, Froom, Gloucester, Guildford, Havant, Hereford, Margate, Monmouth, Oxford, Petworth, Portsmouth, Sevenoaks, Shepperton, Tewkesbury, Tunbridge, Twickenham, Walton on Thames, OR Wells (Somerset),

For a very comprehensive guide to London’s lost pubs and inns look no further than Pubs History

If you like Georgian London, then try Death of a Regency Prizefighter or a brief history of Royal Ascot – or you can find out just how multicultural our great city was 200 years ago

In the final part of my blog series on transport from 1819 I will describe the role of the inn porter: what was expected of him, and what recourse disgruntled travellers have when things don’t go according to plan. I will also give you some guidance on transporting goods – what you can take and how much it is likely to cost. Finally we can consider some of the many wharfs and docks serving London and providing an equally important and reliable transportation system

128 thoughts on “Principal Departures for London Coaches (1819)

  1. fascinating essay, thank you! one question as you are normally so good at differentiating the towns by county if more than one exists – is the Yarmouth mentioned as a destination from the Spread Eagle Yarmouth [Norfolk] or Yarmouth [Isle of Wight]?

    • Hi Sarah
      Thank you for your feedback. I have consulted my trusty guide and find that Yarmouth (Isle of Wight) does not have a separate listing, so must presume anything heading to Cowes would also cover other locations on the Isle of Wight.

      As for Yarmouth (NorfolK), I can tell you a little more about this important Georgian sea-port. As you are probably aware, Norfolk was a very important area of England in the 1700s, and that Norwich was, for a considerable time, England’s second largest city by population.

      In my blog I tried to identify the most important inn for travelling to each UK destination, but I can add that Yarmouth had a whole range of options available – revealing how it was still very much in demand by 1819. According to my guidebook, Yarmouth was exactly 100 miles by road from London.

      As well as the regular twice-daily service from the Spread-Eagle in Gracechurch Street, The Bull in Aldgate offered a very early stagecoach, leaving at 6am. Several Inns including the Golden Cross and the Bull & Mouth had a service leaving at 4pm daily – and the Cross Keys in Wood Street had one at 7pm – which must have had a scheduled stopover because travelling right through the night was impractical.

      For less salubrious travel, you could go to the Saracen’s Head or the Bull in at Aldgate and jump on a waggon. This might be the best option if you have a lot of luggage or goods to transport – but be aware that such services tend to leave as early as 5am.

      Finally, Yarmouth can be reached by boat – with sailing each day at 6pm from Symonds Wharf, Custom House, and Wood Quays.

      Happy travelling!

  2. Many thanks! a delightfully full answer! I knew that Norwich certainly was the second largest city in England in the Medieval period, and Norfolk and Suffolk the most densely populated counties, that Norwich was still rich and important by the 18th Century when wool gave way to silk and that Norfolk and Suffolk were the bread-basket as they always had been. I didn’t know Norwich was still the second most populous city by the coaching age, so thank you for that confirmation.

    • I have been using ‘A New Guide to Stage-Coaches, Waggons, Carts, Vessels &c for 1819. Being A List of all the Inns in London where Stage Coaches put up and set out from, With their respective Days and Hours: Also the Names of the Carriers, the Places they go to, and the Inns they go from’
      This was the Seventeenth Edition published by Critchett & Woods and sold in selected locations, namely
      J Richardson, Royal Exchange
      J Asperne, Cornhill
      J Walker, Sherwood, Neely & Co, Paternoster Row
      Black, Kingsbury, Parbury and Allen, Leadenhall Street
      &
      T Southeram, 2 Little Tower Street

      As you can see it is a very London-centric publication, so I am sure your source is better for a national discovery of Regency Britain in the coaching age.

      • many thanks!
        I have some snippets too from ‘coaching days and coaching ways’, which may have been written long after but is built around the memories of old folk. Most of what I’ve been building up about provincial inns and departure times and where the coaches go have been from adverts in the press of the time which requires a lot of diligent searching and which I’ve tended to write out in longhand in the notes of each book. I should probably pull it into a cohesive whole and blog with it.

  3. Very interesting article. May I ask for clarification as to whom would be using stagecoaches? Only the privileged would have their own carriages, but how expensive would it be to travel by stagecoach – and how respectable? Cheers!

    • Hello Cathy

      An interesting question as to who used the carriages. I would say that very few families would have had the means to keep their own carriage, and the retinue that comes with it. So I would say that stage coach travel was therefore used from the lower echelons of aristocracy right down to middling tradesmen. You could ‘upgrade’ of course by hiring your own carriage exclusively for specific journeys. But on the other hand, there was plenty of scope for economy, either by cramming into a communal coach, or sitting outside and braving the elements. In all cases, the safest and most reliable coaches were Royal Mail ones, which would have been a good option for women or children travelling unaccompanied.
      On a side note, I am researching a wealthy family from the Regency and find that they regularly paid stage coach fees for transporting their sons to and from school at the end of each term – so you can see that demand for coach travel was high throughout most levels of society.

      Thanks for getting in touch!

      • Hi Greg, this is a very intersting article! Have you any idea how a messenger would travel? I am to trying to work out how messengers or couriers travelled in early 1880s .Would they have taken a coach or just ridden on horseback to stay coach houses. I am trying to find routes from London to Portugal.

        • Hello Jill – Thanks for your feedback and apologies for the delay in replying to your question re messengers.
          I would have thought that messengers would have used fast horses and small speedy boats to convey important information during the Napoleonic wars. However, this was the dawn of the telegraph so I’m sure that this technology would have come into play increasingly more as the C19 progressed.
          With the advent of railways and steam boats, I would expect that couriers carrying sensitive information would have travelled by these means – or used diplomatic post which was probably the safest way to convey politically sensitive information.

          Regards

  4. Pingback: Joseph Edge, the Macclesfield Pedestrian of 1806 – All Things Georgian

  5. Hi Greg, I am researching the movements of a miner, in 1842, when he travelled from Wakefield or Leeds to Newcastle. Would you know how long such a journey would have taken and the cost. He was an active Chartist and union leader. What I know of him so far I doubt he would have travelled on horseback, but may have done so. Can you help? Ken

    • I’m not really sure about this one Ken. I agree that your miner would probably have not travelled on horseback but he would have been able to afford a ride on a waggon or up top on a stagecoach. Also, by 1842 there would have been plenty of opportunity to travel by train. Given that most of the early railway lines originated in the North East – I would be surprised if this option would not also have been available to him.

      Good luck with your research

  6. Dear Greg
    I am a botanical historian preparing a Commentary on the life and travels of David Douglas (botanist & plant collector, 1799-1823). Currently I have him boarding a coach at the Spread Eagle, Gracechurch Street bound for Gravesend and a boat to the Pacific North-west. I wonder whether I may use the image of the Spread Eagle on your blog, with attribution to your blog? NB – also posted in error on “Blog rules”
    Best regards
    Gordon Mason

  7. Frank Staff’s The Penny Post 1680-1918 (I was lent it by a friend but copies are available eg http://www.lutterworth.com/product_info.php/products_id/775 ) has quite a lot on messengers, post boys, and the mail coach network, with typical times for various routes and destinations from London to the provinces.

    The Postal Museum should though be considered for further research ………….

    Some excerpts from an overview of the Royal Mail Archive, which is divided into different ‘POST’ classes.
    For example:

    POST 4
    POST OFFICE: ACCOUNTS OF PACKET SHIP SERVICES AND BRITISH OVERSEAS POSTS
    1773-1857
    32 volumes
    Scope and content
    This series comprises accounts of British packet services and overseas posts, including records of agents and postmasters, packet stations, and packet boats. The accounts cover income, expenditure, salaries, allowances and disbursements.

    POST 10
    POST OFFICE: RECORDS ON CONVEYANCE OF MAILS BY ROAD, INLAND SERVICES
    1786-1990
    317 files, 88 volumes Scope and content
    This POST class contains records relating to the transportation of mails by road – mail coaches in particular – but also includes material on the early use of railways. Some reference to steam packets is also contained in this class.
    Administrative history
    Prior to the introduction of the GPO’s mail coach service in 1784, the mail was conveyed by horse riders or mail cart on the longer routes out of London and on foot on some country services. The service was slow and vulnerable to attacks by armed robbers. In 1782 John Palmer of Bath put forward his scheme for conveying the mail by stage coach. Rejected in 1783 by the Postmasters General, a trial was finally approved in Jun 1784, with the support of William Pitt, Chancellor of the Exchequer. The experiment on the Bristol-Bath-London road in August 1784 was a success and Palmer began to organise further mail coach services in 1785. He was appointed Surveyor and Comptroller General of the Post Office in 1786 and presided over the expansion of the service throughout England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. By 1790 all the most important routes had been covered and many towns had a daily delivery and collection of mail by coach. The full scheme involved 42 mail coach routes.

    The mail coach service was almost immediately affected by the arrival of the railways in the 1830s. The GPO quickly took advantage of this new and faster method of transport to replace the mail coaches. The last of the London based coaches ceased in 1846, although this method of conveyance continued for cross post services between some provincial towns until the 1850s. The last coach in the Midlands ran out of Manchester in 1858. Mail coaches lasted longest in those area which railways were slow to reach, such as Cornwall, Mid Wales, the Peak District and far North of Scotland. One of the last mail routes to be used, to Thurso in northern Scotland, ceased after the opening of the Highland Railway in 1874. In some remote parts of Scotland railways were never built and horse drawn carriage continued into the twentieth century, until replaced by motor vehicles.

    POST 11
    POST OFFICE: RECORDS ON CONVEYANCE OF MAIL BY RAILWAYS 1827-1975
    106 volumes, 50 files Scope and content
    This POST class relates mainly to the railways but includes some material concerning conveyance of mail, by mail coaches and steam ships and cases of arbitration between the Post Office and these companies.

    POST 12
    POST OFFICE: CONTRACTS AND VOYAGE RECORDS ON THE CONVEYANCE OF INLAND MAILS BY SEA
    1748-1965

    POST 43
    POST OFFICE: OVERSEAS MAILS: ORGANISATION AND SERVICES: PACKET BOATS AND SHIPPING
    1683-1949
    211 files
    Scope and content
    This class covers the organisation and services of Packet Boats and shipping. The earliest established packet stations were Dover to Calais 1633, Harwich to Holland 1660, Falmouth to Spain and Portugal and Falmouth to the West Indies in 1702.

    POST 46
    POST OFFICE: OVERSEAS MAILS ORGANISATION: CONVENTIONS AND ARTICLES OF AGREEMENT
    1698-1913

    An overseas mail service has been in operation since 1580, before the establishment of the public postal service. A staff of ten Royal Couriers carried letters on affairs of State, or on the business of ‘particular merchants’ to Dover. At Dover, the postmaster provided horses for returning couriers and vessels for those passing through to Calais.

    In 1619 the office of Postmaster General for Foreign Parts was created. The mail service with foreign countries was not large in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. The foreign Post Office, as it was called, had a staff of only four men in 1660. At the time of the Napoleonic wars, the Foreign Office business was barely accounting for 10% of the total net income of the Post Office.

  8. Great blog….glad I found you.
    Did the carriers keep a list of passengers on their services.
    I am researching a military family living in Hailsham, Sussex who travelled to London regularly in the period 1803 – 1814.
    They used the Eastbourne – Golden Cross Inn stage and I am trying to find out more information. Fares, journey time etc.

    • Hello Stephen
      Thank you for your kind words about this post. I have had thousands of unique visitors over the past 2 years, proving how fascinated we all still are about Regency Britain.

      The Golden Cross to Eastbourne stage coach journey was 64 miles, leaving at 7-30am sharp every day apart from Sundays. Alternatively there was a daily service from 93 Bishopsgate Street running at 8am and also at 11am.
      Stagecoaches travelled at roughly 5 miles per hour, So a journey to Eastbourne could have taken the best part of a day including time for resting/exchanging horses

      Operators running to Eastbourne included Crossweller & Co and Bradford’s – both of whom were headquartered in Borough (just south of the River Thames). But best for Eastbourne were Hilder & Eastland, whose stables were situated at the White Hart & Spur, also in Borough

      Good luck with your research

      Regards

      Greg Roberts

  9. Greg,

    Many thanks for your reply.

    Can you point me in the direction to find out more information for Hilder & Eastland and Crossweller & Co.
    I tried to Google and the National archives but no luck.

    Regards,

    Stephen.

    • Unless these companies left an archive (business or personal) there is very little chance of finding out too much more about them.
      You could try Google Books – I did a quick scan and see that there have been some publications mentioning Crosswellers – and both companies appear in various trade directories from around 1814

      The only other possibility would be try try Southwark Council Archives – they may possibly have more information on the coach companies concerned

      At all events I feel it would be a miracle for you to find passenger lists etc because data like this was not generally collected at that time

      Good luck in any case

  10. I am trying to find the route that William Blake would have taken from London to Felpham, near Chichester. He mentions taking the “Petworth Route” in his letters. Would he have changed at Petworth for the onward journey, continuing along Stane Street to Chichester? Thanks for any help in this matter… Paul..

    • I am pretty certain that the London stagecoaches would have travelled along Stane Street towards Chichester via Petworth. However it may have been equally expedient for Blake to catch a stage coach to Worthing and then booked a second coach to Felpham from there. Hence Blake must have used the popular route which terminated at Portsmouth – perhaps getting off the coach at Chichester and catching a ride to Bognor and Felpham.

      Portsmouth being a busy naval port, I would have thought that the Petworth Route would have been fastest and most regular way to get there via London

      Regards

      Greg Roberts

      • Hi, Gregg,

        I am so very grateful for this information and its so kind of you to get back to me so fast!

        My initial thought would have been the Stane Street route via Petworth but I just wanted to try and confirm. In “The Letters of William Blake” he does mention the Petworth route, leaving London early in the morning and arriving in Felpham around 11pm. Blake was living in Lambeth at the time and so I imagine he left from “The Bolt in Tun” in Fleet Street or not? Another question is the amount of luggage he had… 8 packing cases plus his wooden printing press which I imagine was dissembled for the journey… would there be room for other passengers including his wife?

        With very kind wishes, Paul..

        • Hi Paul
          There were a number of busy coaching inns in Southwark so it is likely that Blake would have elected to depart from Borough High Street somewhere, such as the George and Vulture, rather than crossing the river to go to Fleet Street
          Best of luck with your research

          Regards

          Greg Roberts

          • Hi, Greg,

            thanks once more for your invaluable feedback and so kind once again for getting back to me so fast! Yes, I am doing a photographic project on William Blake and Stane Street… My initial research confirmed that Blake would have left Borough High Street on a Thursday morning (But then saw on your site “The Bolt in Ton” with the Petworth Route mentioned?). Anyway, I do believe, as I initially thought, that he travelled along Stane Street via Petworth, and then changed at Chichester for his final leg to Felpham.

            I couldn’t find anything to confirm this so have hopefully now come to a conclusion, with your help, that this is the route he probably took.

            Thankyou once more for your invaluable help.

            Kindest wishes, Paul..

        • Hi Paul,
          You will know that Blake was very friendly with William Hayley when he lived in Eartham, Sussex, before Hayley moved to Felpham in 1800. Stane Street is about half a mile north of Eartham and I have wondered whether Blake, Cowper, Romney and Flaxman who were also in the artistic circle of Hayley would have arrived by stage coach. We have an inn, The George, which is mentioned by Hayley and I wondered whether this would have been a stopping point on route to Chichester.
          Do you have any research to support The George being a coaching inn or just a travellers inn?
          Best wishes

  11. Hi Greg

    What a wonderful post! Do you know how often the coaches ran from London to Rochester (yes this is a Great Expectations question)?
    Many thanks.
    Carolyn

    • Hi Carolyn
      Apologies for the delay in replying.
      Here is your answer

      Rochester in Kent was deemed as 29 miles by road – a very busy and popular destination
      You could catch stagecoaches from
      George & Blue Bear, Holborn every morning at 6-30am
      New White Horse Cellar, Piccadilly – every day 6am and also at 6pm
      White Bear, Piccadilly – 6am, 7am and 3pm each afternoon
      White Horse, Fetter Lane Mornings: 6am and 7-30am Afternoons 5,6 and 7-30pm
      Nag’s Head, Borough: 6am and 2pm daily
      Golden Cross, Charing Cross: 6am, 10am, 1pm and 7pm daily
      Spread-Eagle, Gracechurch Street: 7, 8, 9am and 12 noon, 1pm 4pm and 6pm
      No 93 Bishopsgate Street: 7am and 3-30pm daily
      Black Bear (Piccadilly), Bell and Crown (Holborn), Bolt-in-Tin (Fleet Street), Old Bell (Holborn) – all running daily services at
      7am and 6pm
      Cross Keys, Wood Street: 7-30, 9-30am, 2, 4, and 6-30pm
      Blossoms Inn, Lawrence Lane: 7am, 7-45 and 8-20am, 1-45, 3-30 and 7pm
      The George (Borough): 8 and 9am, 4 and 7pm daily
      Cross Keys (Gracechurch Street: 8,9 and 12 noon, 1-30, 4 and 6pm daily
      The Angel, St Clements in The Strand: 7-30pm daily but 6-45pm on Sundays,also departing at 6-45am on sunday, monday, tuesday, thursday and fridays

      If you cant afford any of these extensive stage services, you could opt for a waggon from the following
      Blossoms Inn, Lawrence Lane: 2pm daily
      King’s Head, Borough: 2pm daily also
      White-Hart, Borough only runs services on tuesdays, thursdays and saturdays at 2pm

      Finally, you might think a vessel might offer the best route, especially if you have a lot of goods to shift and are not in a tremendous hurry.
      In this case I must refer you to Custom House and Wool Keys, Topping’s and Chamberlaine’s Wharf -or by Hoy [not sure what that is], which is available at Cotton’s Wharf

      Whew
      Rochester was clearly a key destination from London in 1819!!

  12. Hi Greg,
    I’m finding your website a wonderful resource, so thank you!
    I have a question to which I haven’t been able to discover the answer from other sources (Paterson’s Roads.., A New Guide to Stage-Coaches, Waggons, Carts, Vessels…, Directory of Stage Coach Services 1836), so wondered if you could help. I’m writing a story set in 1810 and would like to know whether stagecoaches continued to travel once night fell, or would passengers be obliged to put up at an inn overnight? All the sources I’ve consulted are not clear on this point. Many thanks for any help you can give.

    • Hello Penny

      Thank you for your lovely comment about my posting

      Stagecoaches and waggons certainly avoided travelling at night during the Regency era. My guide from 1819 has winter hours for journeys which ensures that they will only be on the road during daylight.

      Gas lamps only began to appear in London around 1815, so the nights would have been too dark and dangerous for transport. Passengers would certainly have had to stay overnight in coaching inns before continuing to their final destinations

      Good luck with your book

      • My 1812 Cary’s roads has specific stage coaches labelled as ‘overnight’ to selected places, one of which is Bath, and another is Plymouth, off the top of my head. None of them have winter times though, so presumably they put up with a few hours of darkness.

        • Nothing held up the mail coach so I think you are correct about them being (at least) a bit nocturnal
          Given that evenings can stretch very late in the summers I would expect some passengers could have had the opportunity of travelling after dusk

  13. Hi Greg,
    Thanks for your detailed reply, it is very helpful. So, as I understand it, it would only be Mail coaches that travelled through the night? One source I’ve come across says travel on mail coaches was nearly always at night. Thanks for any clarification you can give.

    • Yes Penny – I think you are correct about the mail – especially if carrying government papers which would have been time-essential. I expect passengers could always cadge a lift on an overnight mail coach if space was available and weather/starlight permitted safe passage

  14. Thank you Greg and Sarah, that’s very helpful. I’ve been scratching my head about night travel and the logistics of how it was managed without decent lighting. What got me really thinking about it was Lapenotiere’s journey by mail coach from Falmouth to the Admiralty, London, with the Trafalgar despatches, described as 271 miles non-stop in under 38 hours (https://www.thetrafalgarway.org/lapenotiere-s-journey). This was done in November, so not many hours of daylight. Quite an undertaking!

  15. these appeared to be stage coaches which went, some of them overnight, not the Mail – they were certainly not doing Mail Pace. I did a detailed study of all of them to Brighton, and the Mail at this time did it in 12 hours. The fastest stage coach was 14 hours, and there was one which was dubbed an invalid’s coach which took things substantially slower and did it over two days [leaving from the Angel Inn, St Clements, at 7-30 am, stopping overnight at Devizes, and reaching the White Hart, Bath at 6pm the following evening.
    ‘The Volunteer’ from the George and Blue Boar was an overnight service, as was ‘The Express’ from Garrard’s Hall and the Black Boar. Both went on to Bristol.

  16. In the winter as well, the roads which were less well marked were easy to leave, there are stories of coaches going off the road and the horses sinking up to their chests in snow, and the newspapers tell stories of drifts too deep even for the mail to get through – in 1808/9 in some places the mail was delayed 3 days! [and I have to lift my hat to the dedication of the mail men that it was only 3 days; nowadays in similar conditions the country would come to a halt.]
    I’ve looked at these reports because I am slowly compiling a book of the weather day by day from 1775-1820

  17. Hi
    I am researching my family ancestry. Several were London Coachmasters. A Richard Pillow of Bleeding Hart Yard, Hatton Garden seemed to have a successful business as he left his family well provided in his Will of 1793. He is referred to in his Will as Richard Pillow, Coachmaster of Saint Andrew, Holborn, Mddx. I am trying to discover anything on the nature of the business and the routes covered and wondered whether you had suggestions of where I should look? There is a possibility that his ancestors may have originated from Castlemorton near Worcester so maybe that was a route?
    Thanks
    Mike

    • Hello Mike
      A quick search of Bleeding Heart Yard on the British Library Newspapers database shows it as a place where a number of coach-makers operated, Being in the vicinity of Holborn I think this area would have operated a bit like a modern-day garage – taking in and repairing coaches from all the local inns, as well as supplying new models.
      Unfortunately I found nothing specific to Richard Pillow.

      If I see anything else I’ll post it on here

      Cheers

      Greg

  18. Good morning. I’m late to the game, I know, and perhaps you’re not checking comments any more, but here goes.
    I am trying to find route descriptions for these journeys – where did the coaches call en route? I am writing a novel, and my character is taking the stage coach from the Golden Cross (Charing Cross) to Bury St Edmunds, in 1829. I know the coach left at 8am and the journey took eight hours, but what were the staging locations along the way? I’ve searched and searched for detailed timetables or route descriptions but without success – please can you suggest anything? Many, many thanks.

    • Hello Susan
      I do not believe there is a definitive answer to your question since many of the stage coach routes had multiple stables and coaching inns available for stagecoach stopovers
      For example, in Wanstead there was the George Inn – this was about 10 miles from Charing X and a popular place for coaches to stop on their way to and from London.
      Perhaps your best bet is to look for obvious towns/villages lining the route to Bury St Edmonds (modern day A12) and to try to work out what their popular inns were – perhaps by checking local history websites.
      Good luck with your book

      • Hello Greg
        Thank you for your speedy response – and you’ve solved my problem. Just as for today’s trains, you need to know the end stop. I went back to Cary’s and looked instead for a Norwich coach with a route via Bury, and there it is – all the stopping points are mentioned. I’m not going to dwell on them but I wanted to mention a couple (literally) in passing.
        Thanks also for the good wishes for the book – this is the sixth in my series of seven set in London in the 1820s (historical crime) and I have become obsessive about period detail. I just wish I had found your blog sooner – it’s terrific.
        And now I’m off on that coach – hope we can avoid overturning, and highwaymen!
        Best wishes from Susan

        • That’s good news and thank you for your kind comments
          This particular blog relating to departure points from London was designed with writers in mind so I am glad it was of service
          It has had many thousands of unique visitors – something I would be delighted with if or when I ever publish my own stuff

          Regards

          Greg Roberts

  19. I’ve cited you in my bibliography for the ‘Regency Miss’s Survival Guide to Bath’ as I also did travelling there. I hope to get it ready for publication by the end of September I am also planning on picking a dozen routes from Cary’s Itinerary and covering travel to the most popular place for authors to take their characters.

  20. I hope so! I’ve just got back from Bath on a working holiday to use my experiences to add to the book. It’s ironic that the first wheelchairs were known as Bath Chairs as they would have jarred no end on the cobbles – I have a granny-walker and my arms received a real workout pushing the wheels over the cobbles and uneven flags, which would have been the experience of any wheeled vehicle in most cities of the time, no wonder they had large wheels! I shouldn’t like to ride a pedestrian curricle in Bath, though, iron shod large wheels or no, I’ve seen a real one in my local museum and some of the gaps between cobbles would let the wheel drop into it and then crash! you’re off …. rubber bicycle tires absorb some of it, but I noted that cyclists avoided parts of the roads!
    navigating a well–cobbled street, even the flat cobbles of Bath, never mind the knobbly cobbles I have seen some places really puts a perspective on how hard and painful travel must have been. I’d have been saving my sixpences for the chair …

    • What a good idea to immerse yourself in the physical realities of life in Bath
      This will have been a great help to your understanding
      Best of luck with the book

      Regards

      Greg Roberts

  21. Hi Greg.
    Liking the article on the coaching inns.
    My ancestors owned The Blue Coach Company in East Street (next Castle Square) Brighton
    Both Strevens and Crossweller. My favourite coaching book is William Blewitt’s Brighton and it’s Coaches.

  22. Dear Greg

    I am contacting you as a volunteer tour guide for Turner’s House in Twickenham. I am often asked how Turner woudl have travelled from his main home in Queen Anne Street to his Twickenham property which is actually in St Margarets and so also close to Richmond.

    Would you by any chance have any more specific information on coaches which ran from central London to Twickenham / Richmond? It would be most useful to know how much time these usually took; and any sense of the frequency of services.
    It would be great if you can help and then I can share this information with the other volunteers / tour guides.

    • Hello Colin
      Apologies for the delay in replying to your question

      My 1819 guide does not list St Margaret’s as a separate destination, so I had a quick look at the closest stop-offs

      Turner’s London house was not that close to the principal departure inns in London, so he may have had to get a carriage (or walk) to catch a stagecoach out of Town
      If Turner opted for Twickenham, this was a journey of 11 miles costing 13 shillings and sixpence, his best option was to depart from Gloucester Coffee House, Piccadilly, which had 2 coaches each day – 8am in the morning and 3pm in the afternoon. This journey could take up to 5 hours depending on the weather, and traffic on the roads.
      Should Turner have required a more leisurely journey, he could have gone by barge, departing from Bull Wharf, Queenhithe. Or Turner could have taken the regular boat service from Globe and Hungerford Stairs up the Thames to Twickenham

      Richmond (Surrey) was calculated as 12 miles from London – costing at least 15 shillings by coach.
      The most convenient place for Turner to get the Richmond coach was the New Whitehorse Cellar in Piccadilly, which left at 8am each morning, and then again at 5pm (depending on time of year and available daylight). Cottons Wharf (Tooley Street) was one of several docks providing a boat service to Richmond, if required.

      I hope the above will assist you in your very commendable service at Turner’s House

  23. Very interesting site. I wonder do you know if stagecoaches departing for Ware in Hertfordshire would have left from Gracechurch Street and what the distance was. Also do you know where a stagecoach would have stopped in or near Northampton.

    • Hello Nigel

      Having consulted my guide I see that Ware is situated 21 miles from the City of London and might cost as much as 30 shillings per hackney coach, with a journey time of around 6 hours

      By coach from the Four Swans (Bishopsgate Street), and the Cross Keys (Wood Street) departing at 8am daily, from the White Horse in Fetter Lane (9am daily), and from the Vine (Bishopsgate at 3pm each afternoon. A waggon leaves from One Swan at 7am and 3pm daily and would be a much cheaper option than stagecoach. The real budget fare however is to go by open cart from the Vine on Tuesdays or Fridays, leaving at 2pm.

      According to the guide, Collins and Co, based in Windmill Street, and St John’s Street were the experts in travel to Northampton. Regular stop offs on that route would have been St Albans or Dunstable

      However, Northampton was also an important regular stop off point for mail,coaches heading to Holyhead via Chester, and for travel to Manchester

      I hope this information has been of use and thank you for your feedback

  24. Fascinating to see this article and that it also has ongoing ‘live’ comments …. one ancestor (when he died in 1836 in Bath had been “for many years Coachman at The Greyhound”). By which time of his death, his only daughter had married there, another erstwhile ‘coachman of an Innkeeping and coachman driving family originating from Farningham, Kent, which is on the major road to Dover from London.

    Her husband and his brother appear to have spent some time in Bath before employment at various (inn) locations back across the south of England to Brighton: the older brother had left Bath and by c1835 was LIcensee at The Greyhound in East Street – East Street being mentioned by Barry Plank in the comment above.

    According to Project Gutenberg EBook of The Brighton Road, by Charles G. Harper – by 1839 “By 1839 the coaching business had in Brighton become concentrated in Castle Square, six of the seven principal offices being situated there. Five London coaches ran from the Blue Office (Strevens & Co.), five from the Red Office (Mr. Goodman’s), four from the “Spread Eagle” (Chaplin & Crunden’s), three from the Age (T. W. Capps & Co.), two from Hine’s, East Street; two from Snow’s (Capps & Chaplin), and two from the “Globe” (Mr. Vaughan’s).

    One hundred and 20 years later, I sat next a Hines (possibly a descendent?) at school in Brighton!

    The older brother stayed in Brighton managing hotels including Brighton’s Victorian era King & Queen (prior to its rebuild in 1920-30s) and catering for the hoards of travellers arriving by rail there from London and Dieppe in Brighton’s steam-crossing sailings heydays. The other, less nimble(?) in adapting to the changes wrought by the 1841 arrival of the railway to Brighton, was within the year (1841 census) employed at the JP’s house in Uckfield (previously a stop on the stagecoach cross-country routes from Brighton) and thereafter a coffee-house keeper in London.

    In a neat, roundabout way, I think ‘travel’/hospitality’ must have lodged in the DNA as one of the Brighton ‘stagecoach’ descendants is Christopher Challis, acclaimed British Cinematographer whose own favourite film which he worked on, was ‘Genevieve’ (albeit about a car) a vintage car’s journey from London to Brighton.

    May I ask a opinion of you though please: 5x Gtgrandfather Henry Spackman (NO known relation to Henry Spackman, coachbuilder of Bath who financed the development of e.g. Pulteney Bridge) was a Coachman in Bath. However, his daughter was baptised 1805 in London (at St Marylebone – 1800 and 1805 Bath Directories state The Mercury and The Regulator respectively went from the Greyhound (but not to where in London), and in 1809 to the Saracen’s Head, about 2.5 miles from St Marylebone)

    Is it realistic / feasible to think, given journey and turnaround times in c1800, that (at some point prior to giving birth) his wife had travelled from Bath to live with him – for any time in London? Would residing in London, be a Bath stagecoachman’s occupational reality? I mean, why should a humble (?) Bath-based coachman’s wife make a journey to be in London for their baby’s birth [July] /baptism [Aug] when roads shouldn’t have been affected by seasonal weather?

    I appreciate the answer might be “how long is a piece of string?”, but if you have an instinctive specialist’s thoughts on those scenarios, it would be wonderful to hear. Very many thanks!!

    • Thank you for sharing your research
      I’m afraid I could not speculate about your ancestors, but I can say that in 1819 the main coach company serving Brighton from London was Mr Bradford who used the Bull at Holborn and the Nag’s Head (Borough). Brightlemstone (as it was then known) was calculated as a 54 mile jiurney with a rough cost of 18 shillings (based on time).

      Bath (106 miles) was a very busy route from London – therefore it is entirely feasible that your ancestor did travel to London from there in order to pursue his career

      Kind regards

      Greg

      • Dear Greg,

        it’s little more than two years ago since I posed the question you kindly responded to above – and have found out much more since: the mystery of a Marylebone baptism was nothing to do with being a Bath stagecoachman. Instead the father was in the employ of the Earl of Cardigan, a Parliament Privy Councillor, whose estate was Deene Park, Northamptonshire, with a London residence in Marylebone. .

        More intriguing – is finding ‘cousins’ [on this ancestral side] were Edward Henry Sanderson who managed The Bull and Mouth, Aldersgate, on behalf of Edward Sherman; he took on Sanderson as an Apprentice: the relationship was lifelong – Sanderson named several of his children variously “Sherman” and was Edward Sherman’s executor.

        Sherman [made his money] ‘speculating on the stock market and marrying three rich elderly widows in quick succession” but one site named a Jewish stockbroker who “set him [Sherman] up” at the Bull and Mouth. I remember seeing this, about about Sherman’s beginnings at the Bull and Mouth, just on one site, but cannot find this one site again to check the name of the stockbroker.

        Does that ring any bells, please?

        The same family’s grandfather – James Trehern – was a trustee of the Tyburn to Uxbridge turnpike road [circa 1811] … I want to eliminate or establish if the Jewish stockbroker Lewis Levi who acquired the Tyburn turnpike was the same stockbroker investing in the Bull and Mouth?

        I hope someone might know please, who was the ‘stockbroker’ originally involved with Edward Sherman?
        Many many thanks
        Hilary

        • Hilary
          Apologies for the late reply and thanks for these fascinating facts. I am posting your comment in hope that another reader might be able to shed light upon Levi, Trehern or indeed Edward Sherman

  25. We are forming a village history group and have come across information which shows that our village pub “The Cricketers” at Duncton, West Sussex, GU28 0LB, was used as a halt for stage coaches. How can I find more about this and what schedules this service may, if at all, have appeared on?

    • Hello John
      Being so close to Brighton I would assume that stage coach services would most likely run from your inn towards Brighton to catch up with regular services, as opposed to being a spefici destination on longer routs passing between Brighton and London.

      I did a search on Duncton and find that in October 1834 it was described by Bell’s Weekly Messenger as ‘situate about 3 miles from Petworth, a very small parish containing about 300 inhabitants,and they have now acquired the reputation of having beaten one of the first Clubs in England.’ Over two days play at Sir John’s Byng’s Lavington Park they had beaten Brighton by 5 wickets. The men of Duncton had issued a challenge for the prize of 22 sovereigns a side, and Brighton had taken them up on the offer – only to end up soundly beaten.

      I’m afraid I could not find any other reference to your pub in a search of the British Library newspaper resources.

      Best of luck with your own research though
      Regards

      Greg

  26. I looked in Oulton’s ‘the traveller’s guide or English Itinerary’ – I have a facsimile copy of the 1805 edition – which only mentioned the seats of a couple of gentlemen in relation to Duncton, nothing about inns, sorry. Nothing more in Cary’s itinerary 1812, only the two houses. Love the name ‘Wool Lavington’ though

  27. Pingback: When robbers ruled the lawless roads – The Beyonder

  28. Hi Greg,
    Very interesting topic and one I am really interested in.
    Myself and wife have just moved into an old Georgian property (circa 1750) in a town called Box which we believe was the last Stagecoach and Postal coach stop before the city of Bath. When we bought the property we were told that our neighbouring property was a stagecoach repair shop and horse rest, where London travellers would leave the coaches to be cleaned and/or repaired ahead of arriving ‘spic and span’ in the city of Bath. Our 3 local public houses obviously being used for a good nights rest and food/beer fill for travellers. We have a large barn attached to our property on the high street which we’ve been told was used during that time for Social entertainment. Does this make sense? Do you have any information on the town of Box during the Georgian/Victorian period.
    Thank you!
    David

    • Hi David
      Apologies for the lengthy delay in replying to your interesting post.
      Your home sounds lovely, and must have been the hub of the village where you live.
      Ancillary trades often sprung up adjacent to coaching inns, so its not surprising to learn that entertainment and coach repairs would have been close at hand.
      Unfortunately my 1819 Guide does not mention specific coaches to Box, probably because (as you have pointed out) they would have terminated in Bath or further west.

    • Hi Anne
      Oxford is listed as 57 miles from London. Based on the schedule of costs published in 1819 a journey by coach to Oxford would cost about 30 shillings but this would be divided by number of passengers on board. Hackney coaches also had the right to levy a surcharge for the cost to get them back from their destination to the first paved area on the outskirts of London – hence actual costs per coach could be a lot higher than the guide suggests.

  29. Can you help/advise, please.
    Pondering travelling to London as a very rural person in the 1820s, I assume/hope that a traveller leaving on a coach from The George at Stamford, into London would be on a coach that terminated at Bull & Mouth, Smithfieldish. If they wanted to get off at, say, Holborn specifically, would the coach stop if asked? Or would there be a local stop, like on a bus? The distance may be short between the two but to a stranger in London the difference might be daunting. Also, I assume it would take more than half a day, maybe mid afternoon from early start??
    Must say, brilliant site, great for much inf.

    • Hello David
      Thanks for your kind words about my post relating to London Coaching Inns

      Let’s begin at the start for Stamford (which I assume is in Lincolnshire)
      This is listed as 89 miles from London which would certainly be more than one day’s travel

      London Inns offering daily services to Stamford included the Bell & Crown (Holborn), the Angel (St Martins-le-Grand), the White Horse (Fetter Lane), the Flowerpot (Bishopsgate) and the Bull and Mouth (Smithfield).

      London’s streets were as choked up then as they are now so I would doubt whether coachmen made unscheduled stops to drop passengers, not least because of the difficuly unloading any baggage they may have had. Of course then as now monet talks so it is possible that drivers could be persuaded to make small diversions to their routes with the right financial inducements.

      A very rural person may not be able to afford a stage coach so would resort to a waggon – perhaps sharing their journey with livestock. Waggons went to the White Horse at Cripplegate, the Three Cups (Aldersgate) or the Castle & Falcon near Smithfield.

  30. Fascinating stuff brilliant thorough research, thank you…I’m trying to find out why a woman in Bury St Edmunds might marry a coachman from Leeds; probably more to do with being “in service” and gentry landed estates than transport routes…but you have to look see!

    • Hello VJ

      A coachman from Leeds would not be much different to modern day articulated lorry drivers. He would have been away a lot – sometimes for days just on single journeys. This would have afforded him ample time to get to know his passengers, not to mention the chance of getting his feet under the table at various destinations between jobs!

      Good luck with your research

  31. Do you have any information on the earliest stagecoaches from Chichester to London? Our heritage pub trail (at https://chichestersociety.org.uk/digital-trail-5/) records Robert Quennel operating the first stagecoach from the yard of the George and Dragon pub at what is now 51 North Street around 1790 (then probably called simply ‘George’ or St.George’), He was supposed to live next door at no 52. Would this stagecoach go to the Golden Cross in Charing Cross as you suggest and can you confirm the route in might have taken at that time? Thank you

    • Hello Bob
      Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I have checked my directory for 1819 but find no Stagecoach operator by the name of Quennel

      Chichester is adjudged to be 60 miles from London.

      You could catch a coach at 6-30am each week day from The Ship (Charing Cross), the Bolt-in-Tun (Fleet Street), Golden Cross (Charing Cross), Crosskeys (Wood Street). A service departed from the Belle Savage (Ludgate) at 7am

      Waggons could be had at two Southwark Inns – The Talbot and the King’s Head – leaving at 7.17am

      The main operator to Chichester and Bognor was Pelcott, who had offices at the King’s Head (Borough). Mr Spurshott was also able to offer direct services to Chichester, Petworth, Midhurst, Arundel, Bognor and Littlehampton from The Spur Inn -also in Borough.

      Very large items could be sent to Chichester by vessel from Hambros or Griffiths at Queenhithe. Brooks, Stanton, and Lower could also ship goods to Chichester from Bull & Kennet’s Wharfs.

      I am not sure what route stagecoaches would take between London and Chichester – but as a rough guide Mail coaches heading towards Portsmouth passed through Kingston, Esher, Cobham and Guildford before heading westwards – so this at least might be part of the route to Winchester.

      • Thanks for this detailed reply. Do you have any names of local Chichester stagecoach operators around this time and from which location? Any mention of Quennel at all?

        • Sorry but my guide is for services from London only (not to London). I looked at the A-Z of carriers for 1819 and there was no Quennel.

  32. Box was stopped at by those coaches which went via Chippenham but not those via Devizes; the inns there were The Queen’s Head and The Bear. there was a toll booth there and the village lock-up was next to The Bear, so one assumes it was rowdier than The Queen’s Head.
    I did an in-depth study of the London to Bath routes for my book ‘The Regency Miss’s Survival Guide to Bath’ using a mix of Cary’s roads 1812, Paterson’s Roads 1819 and Oulton’s English Itinerary

  33. Hello – super blog – I am really fascinated by the coach travel period 1820 – 1830. One thing I have not been able to resolve. I can understand how you booked at ticket on a coach if you were departing from London. What I cannot find out about is if I wanted to book a ticket on a coach say from the George at Stamford to London, how would that happen? how could I reserve a seat.
    I live in Melton Mowbray and I would like to book a ticket through to Stamford then onto London

    Many thanks for your help

    • Hello Derek
      Thanks for your kind comments and apologies for the delay in responding to your question.
      I do know that many inns had booking offices from where at least the first leg of a journey could be paid for.
      However, if you needed to travel from one Town to another in order to arrange a connection to London – I think you would have had to go to complete your journey (in this case to Stamford) and then book your onward ticket from there. Services to London from major Towns were quite frequent, sometimes more than once a day – so you would have had to go to Stamford, book in at the George and await your departure on the first available carriage.
      I am sure the advent of the telegraph in the 1820s would have made it possible to book ahead prior to arriving in Stamford, but certainly prior to then the passenger had to go to the inn and wait their turn.

      Kind Regards
      Greg Roberts

      • Thanks a lot for this information sent by email to me by ‘Stephen’ which shows that it must have been fairly routine to expect at least one overnight stay prior to departure for some Inns that did not run daily services

        Eastbourne Coaches

  34. Hi Greg.
    This is a wonderful site, I have been searching for ages (years) for a coach accident in Wales between November 1859 to March 1861. As three of my ancestors were killed in a coaching accident in Wales, The father Thomas Jones who was about 50 and his two sons William and John who were 18 and 20 years old. He lived in St Lukes, Old Street, London and was travelling to Haverfordwest where his parents lived. I have ordered some death certificates but to no avail. I was told they paid a penny to sit on the top of the mail coach. Do you have any ideas that might be able to help me pin down the area and the time of year. I have run out of ideads Many thanks Sheila

    • Hello Shiela and thanks for your interesting question relating to a mail coach accident occurring between 1859 and 1861.
      I have spent several hours trawling through the BNA to see if I can locate any report of the accident to which you refer.
      Unfortunately the name Thomas Jones is so common that it is impossible to locate him. I also tried to find any report of mail coach fatalities in Wales 1859-1861 and again drew a blank.
      Searches for Thomas Jones at St Luke’s Old Street, or in Haverfordwest were similarly fruitless.
      Is it possible that your ancestors were killed at a different time, or perhaps not in Wales but elsewhere?
      Maybe the carriage crashed in England on its way to Wales?
      If you have any further information that might shed some light on this tragedy please let me know. But as it stands I’m afraid I have not been able to find any answers.
      Kind Regards

      Greg Roberts

      • Shiela has been back in touch about this incident,adding some further detail as follows:

        I wonder if you could help me, my great great grandfather lived at 50 Featherstone Road near Old Street. He was alive in Nov 1859 but was dead by early 1861. He was born in Haverfordwest Wales, I was told by my mum that Thomas Philpin Jones (Born 1809) with his two eldest sons, John Lloyd Jones (born 1841) and Williams Phillipin Jones (Born 1843). Died in a coach accident while sitting on the top of the coach in Wales (I was told they paid a 1p). I have been searching for a long time now and ordered numerous certificates that were wrong. I have tried to find out if there was a list of accidents on coaches, but to no avail. Looking at your wonderful article on Principal Departures for London Coaches (1819) I would think he travelled from the White Horse Fetter Lane to Wales. Trying to narrow my search, would the mail coaches run all year to Wales and what route would they take. I know it rained heavily in June 1860 and was thinking maybe near Merthyr Tydfil. Have you any ideas that might help me, and would they have been buried in Wales near the accident. Kind regards Sheila Challis

        To date I have searched British Library newspapers between 1857 and 1861 and drawn a blank on fatal stageocoach accidents. I am wondering if Shiela has got her dates wrong as I believe that a multiple death accident would surely have made the news back in the mid 19th Century.

        I would be grateful if anyone can help/advise on what Shiela can do next, or for any information that might shed light on this mystery

        Thanks

        Greg Roberts

  35. His death certificate should show where he died, and when, and should be available from the records’ office; I think it’s about sixteen quid but don’t quote me on that.
    I assume when you say he was dead by 1861 you’ve seen the census and his wife is listed as widow? not merely that he was elsewhere.

    • Hi Sarah
      The lady says that Thomas Jons was alive at the time of his daughter’s baptism in November 1859- but dead when his son was baptised in June 1861.
      She may have got her dates wrong, or the baptismal records might be awry. But if she’s right then these deaths must have occurred between Nov 1859 and June 1861

      • she should be able to get his death certificate without trouble to find out, and it may also be in the parish records in his home parish unless he was a dissenter in which case their may not be a parish record.
        It’s probably worth her picking up one of the family records online sites if she knows his wife’s name, and can fill in other details

  36. I have enjoyed reading your blog. I had no idea about coaches in England. I know your blog is mainly on coaches dealing with London. So how would I find out infomation on coaches leaving Lincolnshire to Liverpool in 1833?

    • Hello Paula
      Apologies for the very late response. I have been busy on some research and not keeping a vigilant eye on the blog of late.
      The information I used in my blog was from a book published in London in 1819.
      Unless similar volumes were published covering other towns and cities, such as Liverpool, I think you may not get much luck in print.
      However, you may find what you are looking for by going to the local archives for Lincoln or indeed Liverpool as they may have records of businesses established in those places in the Georgian era – and perhaps documents to show you which services were offered.
      Another excellent research route is the British Library Newspapers as it would allow you to see advertisements and trade sections for Liverpool or Lincoln that might explain in detail what routes were served, what time the coaches departed and – most impoortantly – the cost!
      Good luck with your research

      Greg

  37. Hi Greg,
    What a Fabulous article on old coaching days…thank you…
    . I am very curious, because I have been researching my 4x grt. Grandfather, , John Grimshaw, who was a coachman with the Manchester “Defiance” until his accident in 1828
    He was a postilion first,( when he married in 1804,) then a coachman, living in Briggate Leeds, with his family, & then moved to Soyland, (1832) as a publican, following his tragic accident,( near Herpurhey), where the coach overturned & fell on him, but his passengers were all ok…
    Would he have done an apprenticeship first to be a postillion then to coachman? I’ve read it was a very tough, competitive & challenging work, which he did for over 20 yrs, providing for a family of 6 children.
    Also, what sort of uniform would he have worn?
    I hope you can solve my curiosities about John & his life as a coachman… I find this era, absolutely fabulous.
    Thanks & Cheers, Debbie

    • Hi Debbie
      Apologies for the very late response. I have been busy on some research and not keeping a vigilant eye on the blog of late.
      Your ancestor seems like a fascinating character who led a hard life on the roads
      I cannot help too much with your question about apprenticeships and the varying roles played by men and women involved in the stagecoach industry.
      But I can advise that a very good book has just been published by James Hobson https://www.fonthill.media/products/passengers which might answer some of your questions
      James is a very nice man and you might even want to ask him via Twitter @About1816
      In regard to livery – I would say that most coach firms had their own specific logos and dressed their staff in corporate uniforms. So I would be surprised if John Grimshaw was not turned out in his Company colours whilt going about his business.
      Good luck with your research

      • Hi Greg,
        Thank you for reply , as I apologise for my delay in returning your answer. I have finally purchased the book you suggested & I have yet to contact James via Twitter.

        Thank you for sharing such great stories about the coaching era, that unfortunately is now in the distant past. As I live in WAustralia, I am trying desperately to find out more this era in England & my Grt Grandfather John.
        Cheers…Keep up the interesting work.

    • Hi Greg,
      My sincere apologies for the long delay in replying to your answer, to which I very much appreciate your time. I will continue my search for my very interesting, but illusive ancestor. Thank you for the book link, I will certainly love to read it & learn more of the coaching days in Britain.
      Again thanks for your help,
      Debbie [from West. Australia]

  38. Do you by any chance have any pictures of “The Swan” in Holborn Bridge? My Broadwood square piano was delivered there by Broadwoods on 29 November 1804 for onward transport to Bath by “Lye’s Waggon” – I understand that Lye was the main carrier from London to Bath, and “The Swan” was the pick-up point. It would be wonderful to have a picture – or any further information on “The Swan”.

    • Hello David
      Apologies for the very late response. I have been busy on some research and not keeping a vigilant eye on the blog recently.
      Unfortunately I drew a blank in trawling about my sources for images of the Swan at Holborn Bridge
      I did find Mr Lye who served Frome and Warminster but operated from the Angel Inn at Fleet Market.
      I would suggest that Mt Lye collected the piano from the Swan having first set out from his stables at the Angel Inn
      I have found an old image of the Angel Inn here https://pubwiki.co.uk/LondonPubs/Holborn/Angel.shtml

      All the brst

      Greg Roberts

      • Thanks Greg. Likewise, apologies for my very later response!

        I have found some old maps which show the precise location of the Swan at Holborn Bridge, and I have found an old print which just about shows the frontage of the inn. Is there a way that I can post images here? Let me know, otherwise I can post links.

        Incidentally the Angel is just around the corner, so that makes a lot of sense.

        Best regards, David.

        • Hello David
          If you could email them to me I’ll post them up on the blog
          They sound very interesting, so thanks very much for advising me about them
          Greg

  39. Hello – I’m at it again with another question! I am writing a novel set in autumn 1829, and I want my character to travel from London to Liverpool by mail coach. I know he would have gone overnight, and I know he would have departed from the Swan with Two Necks in Cheapside – but how long would the journey have taken him? And does anyone have any other details about that route – name of coach, or specific point of arrival in Liverpool? I’m trying to make my journey as accurate as possible, but am struggling to find the details. Many thanks indeed for any help.

    • Hello Susan
      The mail coach route from London to Liverpool was through Barnet, St Alban’s, Dunstable, Fenny Stratford, Stoney Stratford, Towcester, Daventry, Coventry, Lichfield, Newcastle-Under-Lyme, Comngleton, Knutsford, Warrington, and finally Liverpool. It would have departed from The Swan With Two Necks in Lad Lane at 7-30am in the morning with a journey estimated to be 206 miles.
      How long the journey would take and where the coach would have stopped overnight is I’m afraid anyone’s guess.

      Good luck with your journey

      Regards

      Greg Roberts

      • Hello Greg

        Thank you so much for this – it will be great to be able to “name drop” the stops en route. I’m a bit surprised to hear that the mail coach went during the day – perhaps this is the stage coach? But I’m on the right route, thanks to you!

        Best wishes from Susan

    • Hi Susan
      Apologies for the bery long time it has taken me to reply to your comment
      Thanks very much for providing this link to Stagecoach routes from 1836
      It adds greatly to the picture of London’s final years when horse-power was about to be usurped by steam locomotion

  40. I have a description of a journey from London to Falmouth in the late 18thC, which states that both the mail coach and the post-chaise were too expensive, and “the next great travelling conveyance” he explained “was Russel’s wagon, an immense vehicle covered by canvas, with six heavy horses, a driver and a heavily-armed guard. Do you have any idea if this referred to a specific person’s wagon, or a type of vehicle? Thank you.

    • Hello H
      I am unsure as to the precise answer but it was so common for businesses to prefix their name before the service offered during the 19th Century that I feel it is most likely that Russel’s Wagon was provided by a Company of that name.
      Regards

      Greg Roberts

      • Thank you for the helpful reply. After various delays (for which I apologise), a little more digging revealed that Russel’s Wagons was the biggest haulage concern in the West Country and Devon. Not only that, it advertised so widely it even produced postcards with pictures of its freight wagons (essentially the same as Conestoga Wagons for Americans) – the postcards were reproduced on the site I found (and if I were better organised I’d provide the link).

  41. Hi Greg!
    I’m just starting out on researching Mail coach history in relation to my local area in the West Midlands.
    You commented that Mail coaches to Dudley started out from the “Bull & Mouth”. I wasn’t aware that there was a Mail coach from London that passed through the town. Until 1822 when Dudley became a post town, the Mail was carried by horse from Wolverhampton (for which recipients had to pay an additional halfpenny). I presume that the mails were taken off the coach at Wolverhampton for local distribution.
    The only Mail coach that I have discovered to have passed through Dudley was a provincial one from Birmingham to Stourport operating about 1820 to 1822.
    Do you have any information about a Mail coach travelling directly from London through Dudley?

    Regards,
    Pete

  42. Planning two journeys in 1815/1816.
    1. to Portsmouth – presumably from the Bolt in Tun. I’m assuming travel time approx. 7 hrs? Any idea what departure times were?
    2. more complicated – journey to Karlsruhe. Ideal port would be Harwich, but you state that Dover had supplanted it around this time. Which port would they use, which coaching inn, and how long should I allow to reach the port? And do you know of any site that offers information on travel from Holland to any city in Germany (I realise it wasn’t “Germany” at the time but an aggregation of principalities)?
    Many thanks for a truly splendid site!

    • Hello H
      Once again apologies for delay

      Bolt in Tun had several coaches heading towards Portsmouth – all of which set off in the early part of the day (depending on season) to minimise time spent travelling at night. 7 Hours is about right for the journey

      Travel to Germany in 1815/16 would still have been most likely via Harwich to Husum – as the route to Dover was still a bit fragile following the defeat of Napoleon.

      Not too sure about inter-continental journeys – sorry I can’t help with the final part of your question

  43. I read the blog with interest, my forebearers were involved in the coaching industry gggGrandfather John Cross and son Thomas.
    I have learnt a lot from a 3 volume book written by Thomas THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A STAGE COACH DRIVER.. Have you come across these names in your research or are you aware of the book.

    Regards Robin

    • Apologies for the delay in replying
      The book you refer to sounds very interesting so I will look it up thank you.

  44. Brilliant! Many thanks. My 3xgt grandfather, a Linen-Draper, lived in Mile End Old Town until about 1814, but moved to Dorking in Surrey where he ran a substantial shop in the High Street. In those days drapers trained in large shops where they lived in (apprenticeships were very expensive) so were able to save some of their pay to set up on their own, and my ancestor was also left some money by his grandmother in 1810. For a few years he seems to have lived, with a young family, in both places, so I have investigated pre-railway travel between them. Razell’s Wagon (lovely advert) took care of parcels between Dorking and the “George and White Hart Inn”, Borough. Do you have any information about coaches for people?

    • Thanks for your interesting post.
      I am afraid I do not have further information to hand regarding Razell’s Wagon as he is not listed in the London Guide for 1819
      This suggests he would have been a provincial coachman travelling into London rather than based there.

  45. Hi Do you have any information on stagecoach journeys in the 1840s from Italy to the UK? Any information most welcome. Kindest regards. Sally

    • Sally
      Sadly I do not have any information in this regard. I would hazard a guess that unless travellers had their own coach and livery they would have to make a journey like this in stages – stopping off, resting and then joining another coach to make the journey eastwards.
      William Long-Wellesley travelled back from Naples to Paris in 1823 – he had his family and own coach – but he stopped for some time in Florence, then crossed the Alps to Lake Geneva before crossing the border to France.
      By 1840 there was perhaps a nascent rail system which might have taken care lof at least part of the journey from Italy to England
      Regards

      Greg Roberts

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